385: How Wendy Papasan Discovered the Mindset Shift to Building a Lasting Real Estate Empire

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So Wendy Papasan, host of Empire Building. Thank you so much for joining me on

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Podcast Junkies. Oh, well, thank you so much for having me today, Harry.

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What a pleasure it was to meet you, and shout out to our mutual friend

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Christina Wise for bringing such a unique group of fine human

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beings together. It's a testament, I think, to her energy. And so we met at

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her event in Park City, now going back to— was it

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October? Yeah, it was October. It took us a hot minute to get together, but

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yeah, yeah, it was a very special event. I a nicely curated

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group of really interesting people. And I just remember having

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great conversations and one of my great conversations was, was with

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you. So thanks for reconnecting and I'm

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happy for us to stay connected. Yeah. I'm always grateful to have the podcast as

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a platform to invite people on. And that's really the reason why I started

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it. And the only really prerequisite is that you have a podcast

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or in the podcasting space, which is a lot of people nowadays.

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Yeah. Well, I love that. And it's so interesting because then you get to learn

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a lot about a lot a lot of different things. So yeah, yeah, because typically

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most of the people have the show as one aspect of their business or their

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life, and then they start branching out into other things. And it's helped me become

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a better listener, conversationalist. I'm at— between my

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two shows, I'm over 500 interviews. So wow, it's been a

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fantastic journey. And I started this show in 2014. Amazing.

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Yeah, that's incredible. Yeah, can you believe that even? No, no,

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sometimes it's like I remember the first day I went to a conference called New

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Media Expo in Las Vegas, and it was bloggers, podcasters, and

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YouTubers. And so that sort of dates the event.

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Wow. Back in the day. Back in the day. You were like, you're OG. And

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I thought it was late too. So it was funny. I actually started, my

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husband and I had a podcast probably about 2016.

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Yeah. It was called Inside ATX and we interviewed interesting

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people in Austin and you know, I sort of regret not

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keeping up with that. You know, it just ended up being a lot of work

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because we were doing so much of the work ourselves. Of course, now it's so

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easy to outsource and get help and edit and all

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that kind of stuff. But in 2016, it was editing by,

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you know, printing out manuscripts and trying to do it manually. And it was just

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a lot of work. So ultimately we let it go. But man, I wish I'd

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kept that one up since 2016. I was thinking I was looking for some

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of the shows and I saw that Inside ATX is still on like It's a

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live feed. There's a site called Listen Notes where you can put in podcasts and

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it does come up. So I think people can still find it. Oh, wow. Okay.

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That's good. I didn't realize that. So a little bit on your background. You've

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built businesses, invested in real estate, and host Empire Building, which we'll get into.

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When did you first realize that you were wired to build?

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Well, that's really interesting. I actually had my very first

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business aside from babysitting, but I was a junior

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in high school and me and my best friend, and she went on to

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become a doctor. She's an OB-GYN

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near you in Minnesota, actually. And so we started, we had a little earring

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business and we ended up selling it in 3 stores

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in our little hometown in northern Minnesota. And

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yeah, that was kind of, you know, we got a checking account, we had a

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name and we, you know, made some money from it. And that was kind of

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my first entrepreneurial journey. Yeah. Yeah. That must

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be a good feeling as an entrepreneur, that first sale or

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getting, you know, the earrings selected to be in a store. Like, it's that moment

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when you realize, okay, maybe there's something here. And it's— you never forget that first

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feeling. Yeah. And I think that what's interesting is I had

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no role models for being an entrepreneur in my life. You know, both of my

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parents were kind of working class and, you know, my whole family

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was. I have, you know, I come from a a long line of farmers.

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And so I really had no, which is very

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entrepreneurial actually when you think about it, but I just had no

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reference for it. So if I had, I may have

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pursued it more, but you know, I didn't really start my

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big business, my real estate business until I was 38. Okay. So it

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was a pretty big gap between the two. You mentioned the farming, so I couldn't

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resist asking about it because I don't know if we I mentioned it when we

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spoke, I have a second show called the Vertical Farming Podcast, which was

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interesting to me because I was interested in the topic and I've interviewed CEOs, about

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180 CEOs and founders. It's turned, I've had to actually spin it off into like

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a little, it's another business as well because it's a media company related to the

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AgTech space. But I have had conversations with people who

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have a family history in farming. And I think what's been interesting

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as I have those conversations with those people, I always notice the trend that if

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you've got a farming background, or you grew up on a farm,

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there's a work ethic that is instilled in you that's so

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crazy, and it's prevalent, and it's really interesting, that aspect

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of it. So I don't know how much into farming the family was. I didn't

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grow up on a farm, but like my whole extended family

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are farmers. And, you know, my grandmother, who I was

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very close to, she was 14

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and her dad died, and she had, you 9 brothers

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and sisters at 14. Wow. And she and my great-grandmother,

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who is also an amazing woman, they worked the farm together. So I had

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lots of stories around that. And they were both so

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hardworking. You know, my great-grandmother lived to be 100.

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She shoveled her own walk until she was well into her 90s.

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And that's no joke in Minnesota. Yeah, for sure. And

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so just this idea of Yeah, you just get up and do what

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needs to be done until it's finished. Yeah, that's definitely the work

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ethic that was installed in me. I grew up in New York and

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lived in New York City and then I lived in LA and now I'm in

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Minnesota and I have chickens. And so it's been a really interesting journey. So I'm

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not like a proper farmer, but there were a couple of, you know, there's some

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times in the, especially last week when it was like -20, like I had to

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get up early and on top of everything else that I want to do, my

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meditation, my workout, I'm like, I got to check on the chickens. I got to

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check if the water's not frozen. I got to make sure there's eggs, that there's

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no eggs there so they don't freeze. And the first couple of times I was

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like, my God, this is like a lot of things to be thinking of. But

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you get into this rhythm, I guess, for lack of a better term. Yeah, you

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just do it. Yeah, you just— well, but it's also the cold, I think, makes

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people really tough up there in that part of the world. I mean, I live

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in Austin, Texas now, and I have two native

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Austinites. My sons are 20 and 21, and they're wimpy, you

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know, when it comes to the weather. My husband from Memphis, they're

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all wimpy. So I am strong when it comes to the weather,

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you know, I realized that too, cause I had it in New York and then

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when I went to LA, I was there for 4 years and all you need

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is a hoodie in your trunk and you're good. LA spoils people and people

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who, who try to move from LA or Northern California or San

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Diego or something like that, they're just messed up. They can't leave. They like, don't

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even try because they come to Austin. They're like, it's too hot.

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They go anywhere else. It's too cold, which it is compared to where they grew

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up. So I feel for them. They're stuck. You do get acclimated though, I think,

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as you were referencing, because now like I'll go outside and like throw out the

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trash in a t-shirt and then I look at the temperature and I'm like, oh,

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it's like 30 degrees out, but it doesn't faze me anymore. Yeah. You're fine.

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Your blood is, your body does adjust. I think that is true. Like I read

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somewhere in Finland, they bundle up the babies and

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they put them outside in the winter. I've seen that. Yeah. Just to get them

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like acclimated. So I think it must do something to your, at the cellular

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level. You know, I, I certainly remember in high school, you know, in

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high school, of course, You do all kinds of dumb fashion stuff, but yeah, just

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wearing like my jelly shoes in the middle of winter

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with like a, you know, maybe a sweater, something like that, you

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know? Yeah. So after your success with the earring business

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and prior to getting in into real estate, what's the, the short version

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of like where your career took you? Yeah, well, when I

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graduated from college, I actually traveled around the world for 18

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months. Nice. I had multiple jobs. I had a 6-month

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visa to work in the UK and I had several jobs there, including

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one on the Golden Hind, which was Sir Francis Drake's ship

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that sailed around the world. So it was like a full-size replica of it.

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And it was— it sailed around the UK. So I was actually a sailor and

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I would give tours to schoolchildren. So it was like a fun job.

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And I saved up some money and then I backpacked around the world. I went

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all through the Middle East. I traveled all over Europe. I

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actually hitchhiked across Canada, which was which was

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crazy. And yeah, then landed back

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in northern Minnesota and it felt really small. So then

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I hopped on a Greyhound bus and I went, and I went to New York

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to see if I could make it, you know, find my destiny in

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New York City. So I worked for about 4 years in New York City

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as a public relations consultant. And it's kind of where I got

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my cold calling acumen. I would cold call

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newspapers. And then I would go fax my, you know,

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remember faxes? Yep. My fax, calling and faxing, calling and faxing way in

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the '90s, you know? Yeah. And then I met my husband and we got

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married and then we traveled around the world together for 4 months. We had a

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really great long honeymoon and then we landed in Austin, Texas. Nice. And

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yeah, I had some jobs in the travel industry and then I took 5 years

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off to be a stay-at-home mom. Okay. And then invest in real estate. That's when

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I got started in investing. And then in 2009,

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when my oldest son was getting ready to go to kindergarten, I got my real

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estate license. Nice. Yeah, I've been doing that for 17 years, which is

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crazy. That's a fantastic, yeah, story. Thanks for sharing

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that. Yeah. What is it about real estate that attracted you? Well, I actually got

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into it because my husband worked at the corporate office of Keller Williams. Perfect.

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And so he and Gary have been business partners for 25

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years and written many bestselling books together and

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So he wrote a book called The Millionaire Real Estate Investor. Yep. And

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he decided that he wanted to, you know, learn about

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investing. So we did a flip. So Jay,

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my husband and I, and a couple other

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folks decided to flip a house. It was

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unmitigated disaster. We made no money. I

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put in most of the sweat equity because I was a basically not working

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outside of the home at the time. And I think between

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the 4 of us, we each made like $500, you know, with

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no one getting paid for their work. And yet that kind of lit a

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fire in me. So we ended up buying several more investment properties.

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And I was a real estate investor before I got into real

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estate. So I did that for about probably 3 or

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4, 5 years, just kind of buying properties remodeling

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them and then keeping them. And it's been such a blessing for our

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family for me to take on that landlady role. And now we've got— we have

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19 doors now. Wow. Yeah. Which is— it's hard to

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believe, but, you know, it was sort of just over time, every one, every 2

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years. And then all of a sudden you look up and you have a— you

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have a little empire. And then in 2009, when my

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oldest son decided— well, no, he didn't decide to go to kindergarten,

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but he went to kindergarten. I got my real estate license really to

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save money on investment property. 40s. That was my whole reasoning behind

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it. And my goal was to make $15,000,

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which was— a lot of people start real estate as a little side hustle. And,

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and I ended up making $85,000 my first year in real estate,

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which was twice as much as I'd ever made in any other job. And

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that's about $239,000 in today's

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Austin dollars. So yeah, then I was like, wow, I

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might be good at this. So yeah, the rest is history. We actually are

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celebrating our 25th hundred

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family served this week, actually. Congratulations.

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Yeah, thank you. It feels like a real impact. Yeah. Yeah.

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2,500 families. So it's good timing on this interview

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then. Yeah. Yeah, I think it actually is. I want to

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say it's maybe next week sometime. Okay. You know,

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the 2,500 closing. So. So what do you think it was about

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that experience with that first property where some people would

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probably say, you know what, this was a colossal mistake.

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What were we thinking? Or what was I thinking? And just go back to like

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regular 9 to 5 or trying something else. Yeah. And so what,

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what clicked in you though? Because it sounded like you got, you got the bug.

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Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, I think that I've

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always had the mindset of you fail your way to success.

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And so for me, a failure looks more like a

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learning experience, you know, learning opportunity. And to be honest, we haven't done a

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lot of flips. Since then it was more like buy and hold. And

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I go back and I wish we'd kept that one. You know, we bought that

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house for about $50,000 and I know it's probably

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worth, you know, $450,000 now. I wish I'd held

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onto it. And we just got great guidance. You know, we're blessed to have been

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in Gary Keller's orbit. He's a self-made billionaire

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and I got all of that like trickled down from

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Jay. Jay would come home from work and kind of share his wisdom from Gary

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and, you know, we just And, you know, at one point we

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decided that we were going to set a goal to become

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millionaires. Okay. And that was pretty early on in our

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marriage. And so we started tracking our net worth.

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And at the time, our net worth was about $2,000. Yeah.

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And so that real estate seemed like a way that we could get there.

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You know, that was always our goal was our— was not necessarily the income. It

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was the net worth. Yeah. And we thought if we could get there in 10

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years and have 10 rental properties, we would have

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$75,000 in passive income and then we could be

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financially free. You know, we always kind of called it our FU money so

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that we could say FU to our jobs. And,

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you know, at the time we didn't, when we set that goal, we didn't have

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children. So $75,000 was definitely doable as far as

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living expenses go. And yeah, so we ended up hitting that goal in 6 and

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a half years, became, became net worth millionaires

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and have greatly exceeded that. Yeah. And, you

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know, through luck, hard work, and just, you

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know, Keller Williams has been a big blessing to us in terms of, in

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terms of my mindset, you know, just helping me understand

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what is actually possible over time.

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Congratulations on that. That's really, really impressive and inspiring.

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I think a lot of people are at that point as well, wondering, you know,

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when you see it, when you map it out and you are intentional about

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what you want the outcome to be, then everything that you

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do on a day-to-day basis, if it's not meeting that goal,

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then, you know, you got to get rid of it or to stay focused. So

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I'm sure a lot of that happened as well. Yeah. I mean, success looks different

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than people think it is. Success is repeatable activities

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done over time. Yeah. And so we can

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look back at the last 20 years and there are definitely some habits that

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we put into place that helped us become really

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successful. And that's not always that exciting to think

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about that. And everything compounds, you know, it's

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amazing how wealth compounds, how

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working out compounds, how investing in yourself

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compounds. And, you know, we've just done some of those things. And it's— if

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you had told me 25 years ago, you know, that I would

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be on a podcast talking about this, I probably would have laughed at you. So

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what are some of those habits that come to mind? You know, We don't have

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to go through the full list, but when you think of the ones that are

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like the most, the ones that resonate with you. Yeah, well, definitely the net worth

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tracking. So I think a lot of people are really focused on their income

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and that is what we're taught, or at least I don't know what young people

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are being taught today, but like that's what I was taught, which is become

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a doctor, become a lawyer, become a dentist so that you can make

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a lot of income. And the problem with that mentality

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is that as your income scales, usually your expenses,

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you know, your kind of lifestyle grows as well. There's a lot of pressure.

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And so we opted to think about wealth in a

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different way, which was our net worth, which is assets, you know,

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and if you make $250,000 a year as a doctor and

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you spend $251,000, you are

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broke, you know. And so we just really, we

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just track our net worth every month. We still do it. We actually created a

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club around it for our team members. We call it the Hot Millionaire

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Club because who doesn't want to be a hot millionaire? And

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that's really the main one. But some of the other ones were just

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really living well below our means. And as my real

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estate scaled and grew, we stayed working

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because I didn't make any money for 5 years. So I was a stay-at-home

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mom. And so that really

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pulling yourself out of the workforce for 5 years is, is a lot

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for people. You know, it affected my career a lot. And of

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course, I'm happy that I was, was able to do it. But really

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living on my husband's income as I grew my real estate,

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so then I could invest back in the team, grow the

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team, and then we could buy investments

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with the extra money. So definitely like living below

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our means was huge for us. And, you know, at the end of the day,

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it doesn't really matter what you make. It matters how much you spend.

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I think about that old story of that. I think it was a janitor, Ronald

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Read. I don't know if you're familiar with that. He was a janitor

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and he worked at a gas station. Yeah. Just a regular guy.

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And when he died, he donated $8 million. He had $8 million

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and $6 million went to charity and $2 million went to his family. Everyone was

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shocked. And they asked his family, did he win the

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lottery? Did he do this? But he really didn't. He just lived well

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below his means and he invested the rest and he let that

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compounding do the heavy lifting over time.

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And anyone can do that. Yeah, that's very inspiring.

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What's been the upside of building an empire with Jay?

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The upside? Well, we have a lot to talk about all the time,

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so our date nights are never boring. And I would say that has been one

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of our habits too, is a weekly date night. We have a date every Wednesday

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and we've done that for— since our kids were toddlers,

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you know, we've been on probably close to 1,000 dates with each other.

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That's beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. The upside has been—

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it's been amazing. You know, we've grown a lot. I've personally

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grown a lot aside from being a parent. It's been the biggest growth experience

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of my life, maybe even more so, you know. Yeah.

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So we give a lot of money away. We have a huge giving goal every

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year. We've raised probably over $3 million

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for local charities just by doing events and sort of doing

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that. And that's been a real true blessing. And then we've just been in business

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with amazing people along the way. And that

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network and the ability as a leader to

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lift others with you as you climb is a great gift.

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You know, it's been a really great gift for us. Yeah. Was there ever a

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challenge about or struggle with trying to protect the relationship from the business?

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Well, the good thing is we don't actually work together. Okay.

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So he's at the corporate office. He's got his W-2 job

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that he leaves the house for and goes to every day. And I kind of

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handle the real estate stuff. And so there's a lot of

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overlap, but we don't work together. I would love to

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work together with him. I think he's a little nervous of it. Yeah, probably. Right.

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But, you know, I mean, we, we're busy. We're both busy a lot. And there

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have definitely been times where there's nothing extra, you

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know, to give. And we both, we need something. We never did this, but I

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listened to Brené Brown talk about how she and her husband

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have like a number system for their family, which is they

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can just be like, listen, I'm at a 2 today. I'm like at a 2

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out of 10. And I really need, I need to like lean into

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you today. And especially when, you know, when you have

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younger kids or when your kids are in middle school and you're like

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chief Uber officer, you know, driving your kids around. And then when

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they're teenagers, it can be really difficult. And we

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always prioritize our marriage though. You know, I would tell our

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kids, listen, I love you, but you

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guys are random. I picked your dad, you know,

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which hopefully, you know, hopefully didn't mess them up too much. But

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they have always known that we're first, you know, our marriage, not

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that we wouldn't pull our kids out of a burning building, but you know what

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I mean? Like they know that our marriage is the priority and we've always prioritized

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it. And that's been super important. And we do that

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in several ways. We have our weekly date night. We do

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an annual getaway goal setting session for

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couples, which has been very powerful for us and helped keep us on

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the same page. So we'll actually leave the city and Even when our

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kids were young, especially when our kids were young, you need that to just

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have a way to focus on what's important. And then you get the

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opportunity to share your goals and build something

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together long-term. And so, yeah, I feel really

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lucky. I mean, I certainly wasn't a marriage expert when Jay asked me

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to marry him. And I, I'm just, I feel really lucky that it worked out

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because I know some people are unlucky, you know, you think getting into relationship

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with someone and they're a different person than you. Of course. Or people just evolve

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over time where they change. Some people grow and some people don't. And you just—

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Absolutely. Yeah. Some people are. And so I feel like we're lucky that we both—

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we have a lot of— and I think you do when you're in a marriage,

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you can fall out of love with that other person, especially

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with life going on. You know, our kids are 15 months apart. So

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when they were little, it was really hard. And I've always

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respected him and he's always respected me. And that's great. That's carried

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us through the more challenging times. Yeah. What was the impact

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of the book when it became popular? Did things

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change or was it? One thing? Yeah. The One Thing. Yeah. Yeah. I

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don't know. Well, first of all, that we'd been living that book for many

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years because it took them about several years to do the research around

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it. And I would say it affected us personally

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more than professionally, if that makes sense. And just from the, just because the book

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is so good. So for your listeners, it's called The One Thing.

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Jay's written many books. That one's definitely sold the most. It's, I think,

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3.5 million copies now, the best-selling business books of all time.

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And for me, you know, I was like a variety is the spice of life

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kind of person. Like, I want to do this, I want to do that. And

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so that really helped me understand, and I think this is so important for a

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lot of entrepreneurs, that it's kind of like I said,

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success looks different than you think it does. You know, focus on one thing.

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Yeah. And that compounds over time versus A lot

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of entrepreneurs like the shiny new thing, and I'm certainly guilty

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of this where this is fun and then you go over here

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and that's fun. And so, when I'm feeling really scattered, I'll

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actually just open that book to any chapter and read a chapter and be

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like, oh, I just needed that. That's good

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advice. I read the book years ago and I've moved so many times. I don't

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know if I still have the physical copy, but— Oh, I'll send you. Yeah, it's

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just important. I think just that Even just seeing it on the shelf, it would

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probably be helpful. Just be like, oh yeah, yeah. When you said,

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yeah, we do that as a team. So we get on a quick huddle every

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morning and everybody goes around and they say what their one thing for the day

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is. And that just allows you to have like that micro-focused

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because I know for me, sometimes at the end of the day, I'm like, wow,

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what a busy day. And then I'm like, well, what did I do really? Like,

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did I actually move my business forward or was I just like in response

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mode all day? Yeah, that's helpful. So, with the visibility

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you have with your success, do you find, like, women

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approaching you and asking you for guidance? Do they see you as a role

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model, you know, for the success you've had? Yeah, I do.

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Yeah, it's kind of nice. Like I said, I didn't have a lot of role

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models in that way growing up or even in college or even in really

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in my early 20s. I just didn't realize that it was available to me in

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a way. And so, yeah, I have many conversations with young

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people old people. I love to coach and help people,

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and I have a very strategic brain, so it's

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very easy for me to look at the pieces of someone's life

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and ask them powerful questions that can help them just

404

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think about something that might— they might not think of

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otherwise. And so it's just a gift that I have, and I'm brave enough to

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say things that can be hard for other people to say. So

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I have people come up to me all the time who've said, oh my gosh,

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I ran into you in the hallway at our real estate office 7 years ago

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and you asked me this question outside the bathroom and it

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changed my life. And I'm thinking like, I have no

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idea. I don't remember that conversation at all,

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but that's kind of, I think that's one of my superpowers. So

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yeah, I can help somebody. I will. Where'd you cultivate that bravery?

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I don't know. I've always been kind

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of brave. I think it really started,

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you know, I got my love, my desire to travel from my

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dad. We used to take these long road trips to visit my grandparents

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in California. And then my dad would take our

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family on these little drives around to weird places

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in Minnesota. And he kind of cultivated this

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curiosity in me about other places and

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exploring. And I always wanted to study abroad,

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but I just couldn't afford it. So I paid my way through school and

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I just knew that that was never like really in the cards for me. You

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know, sometimes I couldn't even afford to go home for holidays and things like that.

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And so then I always said, okay, well, if I can't do that,

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then I'm going to go travel after I graduate. And

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so I got my little visa to work in the UK. I'd never been

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overseas. Yeah. And I was so scared,

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Harry. I literally got to my hostel and I just laid

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under the covers for 24 hours. I was on the top bunk, I remember it.

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And I just was so scared, I couldn't even— and I think now, I think,

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gosh, London, how hard could it have been? And it was really

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scary to me. And so I think a lot of people think being

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brave is the absence of fear, but being brave

436

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is really the fear is always there, you're

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just doing it anyway. And the more hard things

438

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you do, the better you get at doing hard things. So you get to look

439

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up and that also compounds over time. Yeah. Yeah.

440

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That's the consistent thread here. Thanks for sharing that story. I really appreciate that.

441

00:26:46,370 --> 00:26:50,170

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So moving into the podcast, have

442

00:26:50,170 --> 00:26:53,930

you always been a podcast listener? Let's see. I'm trying to think of when

443

00:26:53,930 --> 00:26:57,650

I started listening to podcasts. I mean, probably right

444

00:26:57,650 --> 00:27:01,428

around when we started doing that first one in 2018,

445

00:27:01,552 --> 00:27:04,930

'17, '16, something like that. Because as a

446

00:27:04,930 --> 00:27:08,490

realtor, I mean, you know, I was, I don't do a lot of sales

447

00:27:08,490 --> 00:27:12,050

anymore, but when I was in my car a lot. So, and there's just something

448

00:27:12,050 --> 00:27:15,690

great about that versus an audiobook, you know, you can

449

00:27:15,690 --> 00:27:19,410

listen to as you're driving across town 30 minutes. Yeah. And

450

00:27:19,410 --> 00:27:22,770

I'm a lifelong learner. And what's great, what I love about podcasts is you can

451

00:27:22,770 --> 00:27:26,490

kind of pick an area that you want to get better at and

452

00:27:26,490 --> 00:27:29,970

then just binge on that and then move away from it if you want to.

453

00:27:29,970 --> 00:27:33,770

Yeah. Yeah. So you mentioned you and Jay had started with Inside ATX, so

454

00:27:33,770 --> 00:27:37,330

that was your first taste of it. What was the story around starting

455

00:27:37,330 --> 00:27:41,130

Empire Building? Well, I think Keller Williams had this vision, and I

456

00:27:41,130 --> 00:27:44,970

think honestly it came from Jay. You know, the Inside ATX podcast also came

457

00:27:44,970 --> 00:27:48,570

from Jay. He's a content creator. Yeah, that's definitely his

458

00:27:48,570 --> 00:27:51,330

gift in the world. And he's a phenomenal writer.

459

00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,920

Author, and he has a really popular podcast

460

00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:59,520

called The One Thing, which has been— I don't even know when that started,

461

00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:03,040

but there are millions and millions of downloads. Yeah. So he

462

00:28:03,120 --> 00:28:06,840

kind of suggested it to Keller Williams, and

463

00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:10,400

then we were going to launch it in February of

464

00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:14,120

2020. There's 4 of us. And so there was like, we were

465

00:28:14,120 --> 00:28:17,880

on stage and they were talking about it. And then of course, and the idea

466

00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:21,650

was, this is so crazy. The idea was, is all 4 of us were

467

00:28:21,650 --> 00:28:25,010

going to fly to Austin, which I live in Austin. Yeah. Like

468

00:28:25,170 --> 00:28:28,770

Seychelles was going to come from Dallas and one of our

469

00:28:28,770 --> 00:28:32,170

hosts was going to come from Seattle and one was going to come from

470

00:28:32,170 --> 00:28:35,090

Washington, D.C. Like every other week.

471

00:28:36,130 --> 00:28:39,810

Like that was the goal. Yeah. And which kind of made sense.

472

00:28:39,970 --> 00:28:43,690

It sounded like fun at the time and possible. But yeah. And

473

00:28:43,690 --> 00:28:47,490

then of course the shutdown happened and we recorded a few

474

00:28:47,490 --> 00:28:51,220

episodes in February. And then we launched in June

475

00:28:51,220 --> 00:28:54,060

of 2020. And of course, we were 100%

476

00:28:54,460 --> 00:28:58,300

virtual. And it was such a gift for me as a leader

477

00:28:58,460 --> 00:29:02,180

to have a space where I was with 3 other leaders in the

478

00:29:02,180 --> 00:29:05,700

trenches during COVID Yeah, just to come and record the

479

00:29:05,700 --> 00:29:09,460

podcast. And my co-hosts are so amazing that I'm

480

00:29:09,460 --> 00:29:13,260

always learning and taking notes. And of course, now it's just a lot easier.

481

00:29:13,420 --> 00:29:16,360

But at the beginning, it's a whole, you know, it was a whole thing and

482

00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:20,200

trying to coordinate content and things like that. So, yeah. So it's hard enough sometimes

483

00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:23,600

when you have a co-host to figure out the dynamic, but you have 4 co-hosts.

484

00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:28,120

So I'm curious how you landed on that format. Yeah. Well, originally

485

00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:31,600

we had 4 and then we just, and then one of our

486

00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:35,600

co-hosts decided to move on. And so we invited 2 other

487

00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,800

people to join us. What's nice about it is

488

00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,780

we don't all do the podcast. Every single week.

489

00:29:43,020 --> 00:29:46,780

So we can split up. Generally, we have a time block to record every

490

00:29:46,780 --> 00:29:50,500

other week, and sometimes 5 of us can come. And

491

00:29:50,500 --> 00:29:54,060

if that's the case, then great, we split up, we go into 2 separate studios,

492

00:29:54,460 --> 00:29:57,980

we figure out— and then just the burden of coming up with the content.

493

00:29:58,300 --> 00:30:01,340

Yeah, yeah, is so much. I mean, you know, it's a lot.

494

00:30:02,220 --> 00:30:06,060

You've been doing it for 12 years, so it's a heavy

495

00:30:06,060 --> 00:30:09,290

lift. And then when you've got partners to help you out with And then we

496

00:30:09,290 --> 00:30:13,010

just have fun. I mean, we laugh, we have fun. So

497

00:30:13,010 --> 00:30:15,970

it's a time to hang out with my friends too. We do it on Fridays

498

00:30:15,970 --> 00:30:19,730

and Fridays are kind of like my me day. And yeah, it's fun.

499

00:30:19,970 --> 00:30:23,490

How many episodes do you have? Let's see, we'll be at

500

00:30:23,730 --> 00:30:26,610

6 years in June. So

501

00:30:27,250 --> 00:30:30,770

what, 6 times 50, 3, so 270,

502

00:30:30,930 --> 00:30:34,780

280, something like that. Yeah. How has the

503

00:30:34,780 --> 00:30:37,980

show evolved and from what you thought it was going to be in terms of

504

00:30:37,980 --> 00:30:41,700

the content and what you were producing to like now? Well, I

505

00:30:41,700 --> 00:30:45,300

think the content creation is so much easier for us.

506

00:30:45,540 --> 00:30:49,180

I don't know if you would feel the same way, but it's just a

507

00:30:49,180 --> 00:30:52,900

lot easier for us to think about because I'm always thinking of

508

00:30:52,900 --> 00:30:56,500

ideas. So I have a little list of ideas that would be good content.

509

00:30:56,660 --> 00:30:59,620

And then of course, you know, we're using ChatGPT

510

00:30:59,940 --> 00:31:03,620

to, you know, help flesh out some of

511

00:31:03,620 --> 00:31:07,460

the content and we're always going back and tweaking it, but, and we're

512

00:31:07,540 --> 00:31:10,980

not creating scripts verbatim. It's more like bullet points and things like

513

00:31:11,300 --> 00:31:14,980

that. So that's just been a lot easier. And then somewhere along the line, we

514

00:31:14,980 --> 00:31:18,340

actually got a producer from KW and that's

515

00:31:18,580 --> 00:31:22,060

been, that's been a game changer for us. So we just have to roll in

516

00:31:22,060 --> 00:31:25,860

and do, do what we're told and read the script

517

00:31:26,260 --> 00:31:29,920

and, and it turns out okay. But it's been fun. You know,

518

00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:33,720

so many people think they know you when you have a

519

00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:37,480

podcast because you're usually speaking very casually and you're

520

00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:41,200

really in someone's ear and they think they know you. Yeah. Yeah.

521

00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,440

Yeah. You know, so that part's been, can be slightly creepy

522

00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:49,027

sometimes. Great. So yeah, it's interesting cuz I go to podcast conferences and then, uh,

523

00:31:49,027 --> 00:31:52,120

when like when I had the show, I'd occasionally find a listener and they'd be

524

00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:55,080

like, oh, how's your dog Disco doing? Cause I mentioned him on the show or

525

00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:58,740

something like that. Or like, it's really interesting cuz 'cause they talk about

526

00:31:58,740 --> 00:32:02,420

the know, like, and trust factor in podcasting too, and it's just natural if they're

527

00:32:02,420 --> 00:32:06,140

listening to hundreds of episodes of you and you're in their ear, they

528

00:32:06,140 --> 00:32:09,740

develop this connection with you, and I'm sure it's strange when they meet you for

529

00:32:09,740 --> 00:32:12,260

the first time, they're like, I feel like I know you, and you're like, I

530

00:32:12,260 --> 00:32:15,180

don't know you. I have no idea who you are. Well, and you have such

531

00:32:15,180 --> 00:32:18,820

a distinct voice, I'm sure that there's been times when people have

532

00:32:18,820 --> 00:32:22,580

probably heard you. Yeah, yeah. 'Cause your voice is so distinctive. That

533

00:32:22,580 --> 00:32:26,290

has happened, yeah. Yeah, I had this one lady one time, she said, I

534

00:32:26,290 --> 00:32:29,290

love listening to your show, your voice is so soothing. Sometimes like I listen to

535

00:32:29,290 --> 00:32:32,730

it as I'm falling asleep and I'm just like, I don't know what your husband

536

00:32:32,730 --> 00:32:35,450

thinks about that, but yeah, thank you for

537

00:32:37,770 --> 00:32:41,410

that. Coming to you live. Yeah, the— speaking of like

538

00:32:41,410 --> 00:32:44,770

voices, there's a guy who started a show called Sleep With Me, and the whole

539

00:32:44,770 --> 00:32:48,010

purpose of the show, he spoke very monotonously and he would read with his— like

540

00:32:48,010 --> 00:32:51,760

he would just read like the paper or something. Wow. He'd be like this most

541

00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:55,160

boring copy, and people would— and the purpose of it was just like to put

542

00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,800

you to sleep. Yeah, I think that would work

543

00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:02,160

for me. It's like when you're a little kid and your parents have— there's like

544

00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:05,160

a few people over and you're just kind of like falling asleep on the floor

545

00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:08,960

or the couch or something. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That sounds soothing. I'm

546

00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:12,520

gonna have to look into that. It became so popular, he started doing live events

547

00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:14,880

where people would bring pillows and blankets and

548

00:33:17,450 --> 00:33:21,290

like And he would read and he would do the podcast live. And

549

00:33:21,290 --> 00:33:24,850

inevitably some, you know, people would fall asleep. Wow. Wow. That sounds

550

00:33:24,850 --> 00:33:26,650

so relaxing. Yeah.

551

00:33:29,050 --> 00:33:31,890

So there's that whole— I can totally imagine myself like in the studio audience and

552

00:33:31,890 --> 00:33:35,210

he's reading and there's just a bunch of people dozing

553

00:33:35,450 --> 00:33:39,210

off. Yeah. So are all your episodes recorded in studio? Have

554

00:33:39,210 --> 00:33:42,490

you done, have you played around with live? We've done a few live

555

00:33:42,890 --> 00:33:46,590

episodes. So Keller Williams has two large events. One is

556

00:33:46,590 --> 00:33:50,270

actually coming up in Atlanta next week. And so

557

00:33:50,270 --> 00:33:53,870

we will, we're not recording any this year, but we've done in the past, we've

558

00:33:53,870 --> 00:33:57,230

done like a live audience Q&A and that's been fun.

559

00:33:57,230 --> 00:34:01,030

We've solicited questions from the audience ahead of time and then

560

00:34:01,030 --> 00:34:04,870

sort of answered them in the audience. That's been fun. Yeah.

561

00:34:05,110 --> 00:34:08,870

So mainly that. And occasionally we have guests, you know, we don't have

562

00:34:08,870 --> 00:34:12,280

tons of guests, but we've had some guests, which has been fun. So, if

563

00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:16,040

anyone hasn't heard the show, who would you say the show is for?

564

00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:19,520

What's the type of content you cover? Yeah. I think if you have any kind

565

00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:23,680

of— if you're any kind of entrepreneur, we have 5 female

566

00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:27,640

co-hosts and we have lots of men who listen too. I would say our

567

00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:31,040

primary listeners, probably women, but we have— I have lots of men that come

568

00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:35,000

and enjoy our perspective as well. And, you know, you're really trying

569

00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:38,790

to balance this sort of work-life I would

570

00:34:38,790 --> 00:34:42,230

call it counterbalance. I don't think you can have work-life balance, but kind

571

00:34:42,230 --> 00:34:45,950

of counterbalance. And we just talk a lot about, you know, scaling your

572

00:34:46,910 --> 00:34:50,750

business, how to get leads, how to get into business with good

573

00:34:50,830 --> 00:34:54,430

people, how to hire and train good people. So we do a lot of

574

00:34:54,750 --> 00:34:58,470

tactical sales things, a lot of tactical things for leaders. We talk

575

00:34:58,470 --> 00:35:02,110

about leadership a lot. So yeah, a small business owner would really

576

00:35:02,510 --> 00:35:05,850

be who we're talking about, who's trying to kind of do

577

00:35:06,090 --> 00:35:09,930

Yeah. All the things. So. That makes sense. Yeah. When you look

578

00:35:09,930 --> 00:35:13,690

back at when you started the show to present day, can you

579

00:35:13,690 --> 00:35:16,810

see like the trajectory of like how you've grown yourself as a

580

00:35:17,290 --> 00:35:20,610

host? Yes. Well, like I said, I learned so much from my

581

00:35:20,610 --> 00:35:24,250

co-hosts. Yeah. I mean, I've always like, while we're recording, I'm

582

00:35:24,250 --> 00:35:27,810

always taking notes, writing things down. And you know, one of my

583

00:35:28,730 --> 00:35:32,410

co-hosts, Sarah Reynolds, she's the number one Keller Williams agent in the

584

00:35:32,410 --> 00:35:36,080

world. Oh, wow. She has a team of, 350

585

00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:39,760

people and is closing, I don't even

586

00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:43,400

know, thousands of transactions every year. So she's

587

00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:46,720

doing things at an incredible level. So yeah, definitely

588

00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:50,880

learning, learning from them. And then I think, you know, I do

589

00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:54,640

listen to my podcast, which is, as you know, it's painful

590

00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:58,480

at first. Sometimes, yeah. Especially at first, you

591

00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:02,030

know. It's important though. But that's, it's good. Yeah. To

592

00:36:02,590 --> 00:36:06,310

understand. And I'm always trying to get better. I do a lot of speaking outside

593

00:36:06,310 --> 00:36:09,550

of the podcast and I am in the middle of, I have a

594

00:36:10,110 --> 00:36:13,830

speaking coach. Okay. So I just met with her yesterday and so I was

595

00:36:13,830 --> 00:36:17,230

just trying to get better and grow and we're not Mel Robbins

596

00:36:17,469 --> 00:36:21,150

yet. So that's definitely aspirational.

597

00:36:21,390 --> 00:36:24,750

Yeah. So besides the podcast and the real estate, what other projects are you working

598

00:36:24,750 --> 00:36:28,590

on now? Well, I have a, a couple of fun development

599

00:36:28,590 --> 00:36:32,210

projects. So I started my real estate career as

600

00:36:32,530 --> 00:36:35,810

a real estate investor, and we've bought properties over the

601

00:36:36,450 --> 00:36:39,810

years. And then as I grew my real estate team here in

602

00:36:40,530 --> 00:36:44,370

Austin, it's— it was a distraction from the

603

00:36:44,530 --> 00:36:48,370

investing. And so now that I've got my team really stable and I've got

604

00:36:48,370 --> 00:36:51,570

multiple agents on my team, I can kind of do more of what I want.

605

00:36:51,650 --> 00:36:55,490

So yeah, we have a big $2 million development where we're kind

606

00:36:55,490 --> 00:36:59,280

of taking advantage of some new code in Austin. And then I'm

607

00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:02,560

going back to my roots and doing a flip in California right now. Okay. Oh,

608

00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:06,200

California. Yeah. Near Santa Cruz with my partner Megan Archer out there.

609

00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:09,160

Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yep. We call that business Empire

610

00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:14,200

Sisters. Still with the empire theme. So yeah. Yeah. Seems like you, I think

611

00:37:14,599 --> 00:37:17,800

the, is it in your DNA that you just are always, you know, feel like

612

00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:21,520

you need to be working on projects and just building your,

613

00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:24,760

your empire? Yeah, I think so. I think I

614

00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:29,010

do like to have multiple plates spinning,

615

00:37:29,010 --> 00:37:32,810

which I think every entrepreneur really does at their heart. And I do

616

00:37:32,810 --> 00:37:36,410

love to start up things, and I'm good about hiring and

617

00:37:36,410 --> 00:37:40,170

training people to sort of come in and, and run the show, you know, so

618

00:37:40,170 --> 00:37:43,850

I can move on to the, the next exciting thing. So yeah,

619

00:37:43,850 --> 00:37:47,690

I don't know, I've just been blessed with bravery. You know, you have to have

620

00:37:47,690 --> 00:37:51,450

a certain amount of optimism, and I've just learned about business

621

00:37:51,770 --> 00:37:54,890

building through Keller Williams. It's been your gift

622

00:37:55,210 --> 00:37:57,850

and we've had many mistakes

623

00:37:58,810 --> 00:38:02,610

and thankfully the wins have outnumbered the failures. So we're

624

00:38:02,610 --> 00:38:06,330

still kicking. But you gotta put the reps in for sure. Yeah, you gotta do

625

00:38:06,330 --> 00:38:09,571

the reps. Yeah, you gotta do it. So a couple questions as we wrap up.

626

00:38:09,571 --> 00:38:12,890

What is something you've changed your mind about recently? What is something

627

00:38:12,890 --> 00:38:16,410

I've changed my mind about recently?

628

00:38:16,650 --> 00:38:19,370

Well, this is gonna sound weird, but

629

00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:24,200

my Family has had this ongoing debate about whether or not a

630

00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:27,960

hot dog is a sandwich. And

631

00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,600

I've always been a firm believer that a hot dog is

632

00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:35,240

a sandwich. Maybe just to be contrary. Yeah.

633

00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:38,840

But the other night my oldest son was home for Christmas

634

00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:43,200

and they kind of all ganged up on me. So I'm kind of

635

00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:46,440

in the hot dog is its own category right now.

636

00:38:47,530 --> 00:38:50,970

So. I guess it's, I mean, if it's two pieces of bread and

637

00:38:52,970 --> 00:38:56,610

meat, it's a sandwich. I mean, hamburger is a sandwich. I don't know if you

638

00:38:56,610 --> 00:38:59,850

see a hot dog on the menu, it's not going to be with the entrees.

639

00:38:59,850 --> 00:39:01,770

It's going to be in the sandwich section.

640

00:39:03,690 --> 00:39:07,170

Yeah. But then it kind of extends like, is a taco sandwich?

641

00:39:07,170 --> 00:39:10,850

Oh, okay. Not really. Or, you know, you can get, I

642

00:39:11,130 --> 00:39:14,820

mean, we've debated it a lot. So that's a fun one. We debate it

643

00:39:14,820 --> 00:39:18,500

endlessly, but I think I just, yeah, I just make a lot

644

00:39:18,500 --> 00:39:21,740

of enemies when I say that a hot dog is a sandwich. So I'm just

645

00:39:21,740 --> 00:39:25,460

going to keep my mouth shut from now on. Being brave and contrarian

646

00:39:25,460 --> 00:39:28,940

there as well, I see. What is the most misunderstood thing about

647

00:39:29,180 --> 00:39:32,620

you? Misunderstood thing about me? I

648

00:39:32,700 --> 00:39:36,420

would say, I would say that I think

649

00:39:36,420 --> 00:39:40,190

sometimes I can come across as almost like

650

00:39:40,190 --> 00:39:43,950

too direct. And I think it's people who don't know me well can sometimes think

651

00:39:43,950 --> 00:39:47,670

I'm almost kind of mean. And I'm

652

00:39:47,670 --> 00:39:51,390

really not, you know, I'm really not. I am sarcastic and I think that's

653

00:39:51,390 --> 00:39:55,110

part of it. And yeah, I think sometimes

654

00:39:55,670 --> 00:39:58,950

people perceive my like efficiency and

655

00:39:59,270 --> 00:40:03,110

busyness as not being warm, but I think people who know me, you know,

656

00:40:03,110 --> 00:40:06,880

I have a deep heart. And love for people and everybody

657

00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:10,600

that's in my world I care very deeply about. And yeah, well, that came across

658

00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:13,760

in our time together. So the couple of days we spent together, so I can

659

00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:17,400

definitely— I'll be vouching for you if anyone asks. Yeah. Thank

660

00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:21,240

you. Thank you. Well, thanks so much for making time for this conversation. It was

661

00:40:21,240 --> 00:40:24,720

nice to connect with you in person. And then I just realized, you know,

662

00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:27,920

that I've got the platform, so let's go deeper and figure out a little bit

663

00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:31,730

of your backstory and how you've experience success with real estate

664

00:40:31,730 --> 00:40:35,330

and with your business and with the podcast now. And it's all

665

00:40:35,330 --> 00:40:39,143

incredibly inspirational. So I'm really happy that you came on to share some time

666

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with me. Well, thank you. And I think, you know, you're so amazing

667

00:40:42,730 --> 00:40:46,410

about amplifying other people and their voices,

668

00:40:47,210 --> 00:40:51,050

and I'm a big, really big fan of that. So I love what

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you're doing here with both your podcasts. So we'll make sure all the links

670

00:40:54,970 --> 00:40:58,130

to everything you mentioned is going to be in the show notes. Empire Building is

671

00:40:58,130 --> 00:41:01,090

the show. Anywhere else you want to send folks to connect with you or learn

672

00:41:01,090 --> 00:41:04,890

more? Yeah, I'm on Instagram. So I have a weird last name,

673

00:41:04,970 --> 00:41:08,490

Papazian. It's like those comfy Papasan chairs from the '80s

674

00:41:08,490 --> 00:41:11,930

and '90s. Remember that? The scoop ones? Yeah. So

675

00:41:12,010 --> 00:41:15,730

yeah, I'm pretty easy to find on social @wendypapazian. And

676

00:41:15,730 --> 00:41:18,730

I'm pretty active there and love to connect with people there too. Okay. We'll make

677

00:41:18,730 --> 00:41:20,610

sure all those links are in the show notes. Thanks for your time, Wendy. I

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00:41:20,610 --> 00:41:22,580

really appreciate it. Yeah. Thanks for having me, Harry.