322 Ben Albert - Courageous Conversations: Vulnerability and Growth in Podcasting

0:00:00 - Harry Duran

All right, ben Albert, host of Real Business Connections. Thank you so much for joining me on Podcast Junkies. Yeah, harry, I'm excited to be here. Yeah, so we're just talking shop and talking green screens and talking background environments, which is something that any podcaster, no matter how long they've been podcasting, is thinking of. So talk to me about. You. Talked about starting in the bedroom, I think, when you first started your show.

0:00:21 - Ben Albert

Oh yeah, I mean, my first ever show was 2016. It was a Rochester music podcast. We can go into the story if you want. But in 2020, when COVID hit, I got let go and music Ben was a party animal and also was jobless.

So I reinvented myself to business. Ben started again. I had Rochester groove cast, a music podcast, and I started Rochester, New York, Rochester business connections, a business podcast. So I can reinvent myself. Now it's called real business connections, but it was just in the guest bedroom with literally like a green tarp that I bought online, hanging from a ceiling on command hooks and utilizing a virtual background and weird janky lights like a lamp and then a lamp with three bulbs. But then I had to take a bulb out because it was too bright and I perfected that green screen, but there was never anything authentic about it. I felt weird coming out of this sloppy little room with my fancy green screen, pretending like a big shot. So literally just 60 days ago, I moved into this office and immediately went on vacation. So I still haven't built it out yet, but we took a nice squad shot and we'll get that on social.

0:01:39 - Harry Duran

So if you folks can see what we're talking about here, so that'll be nice. Yeah, and so Rochester did you grow up in Rochester?

0:01:46 - Ben Albert

Yeah, rochester, new York, born and raised.

0:01:48 - Harry Duran

Okay, been in a lot of areas in Rochester, but always been in the region, so I grew up in Yonkers, new York, and went to schools in Syracuse so for about a year and a half. So I'm very familiar with the area and the weather that's up there as well.

0:02:03 - Ben Albert

Yeah, I've been to Syracuse a lot. Syracuse Orangeman basketball games, carmelo Anthony back in the day, you know yeah that was fun.

0:02:13 - Harry Duran

It's always fun when you can say that you've seen your favorite team win the big game. So Syracuse won the World NCAA Championship yeah, championship. I was in New York City I think at the time, so I remember they won that. So I went a little nuts. And then I've got to see the Yankees win the World Series before they went on their run so it was 96. So it was the first of the run when they were like dominating the late 90s, but that was in Yankee Stadium Got to see them clinch and win the World Series and then got to see the Giants beat the Patriots for the Super Bowl. So that's not in person, but that one just was just a fun to watch. That's with the. I don't know if you're a Plexiglas bearish. He caught the ball on his helmet as he was falling down.

The craziest catch ever we just I remember we were watching at a friend's house and just lost our minds there. Besides, college was sports big for you growing up.

0:03:02 - Ben Albert

I want to say yes, but no, it's when I was younger. I wanted to be a basketball player. Literally, I tell this story and connected to podcasting. I don't even know how I do it, but it works. I wanted to be a basketball player and I literally had a jersey for every single day of the week. I had Vince Carter, I had Reggie Miller, I had two Michael Jordan, I had Shaquille O'Neal. So you're serious, I loved basketball and I would literally play five on five against myself and literally imagination when you're younger. But I lived to be five, eight on a good day.

So what do you think happened? I actually got pushed around, I got bullied, I got made fun of and I was good at basketball. But honestly, I was introverted and I hid it from the attention and later in life I ended up. I got into music. A bunch of weirdos like me still loved sports but got into music. That's when I found my tribe and now, as a podcaster, it's like I know what it feels like to not have a community. I know what it feels like to get made fun of, feel small, to hide, and you know this. We don't have to live a life like that anymore. We get to bring people together, even if we're some weird short kid that likes basketball, music and music festivals, and we're all unique, and then we can find our tribe through just happened to be podcasting, but blogs, reddit, the internet brings us so close together. It's pretty cool.

0:04:34 - Harry Duran

I think for people that. So I'm a child of the 80s, right. So I grew up in an era when there was no obviously no social media and everything was pretty analog. It was three channels on a TV that you would turn with the crank knob there. And I think when cable came out it was a big deal. It was the cable vision box with the push buttons in it and the little knob that controlled like the 30 or 40 channels and early days of MTV.

But I was picked on a little bit in. I was at a, I was on 510. So I mean I was, but I didn't get my growth spirit until like high school. So I was tiny as well and I remember in grade school there was like these two kids that would just annoy the shit out of me and just pick on me.

But it's funny because I remember one time was walking through the gym and I think he was like picking on me or doing something, and some older kid, probably a year or two older I think his name was Willie or forgot his name, but I should remember it because it's really impactful and he did all he did was just like from the top of the bleachers, he's, I'm Latino and I just I remember that he was Latino as well.

He's just like hey, he's like from now on you just leave that kid alone, right, and that's it. That's all you had to say from that day forward. And the kid was like like, didn't fuck with me anymore. So I'm always grateful, because it's such a crazy thing that happens and a lot of times it's one of those weird things that you have to deal with yourself as a kid, because you'll tell your parents and you know, depending on the level of the bullying, there's only so much they can tell you and you know it's such a hopefully the tide is turning and then you can see the trend is like anti-bullying now and it's not cool to bully, and so people are being called out quicker on that. But I think back then. So I mean, I just I feel for you and I know what that feeling is like and it sucks, and I hope things are starting to change for the better.

0:06:19 - Ben Albert

I mean, I find it fantastic because it happens for us and you know, when we're kids it feels like the world just lands in our lap. The older you get, the older I've gotten, the more I've realized that no one's coming to save me and your parents can come and save you and kind of try to keep you away from harm's way. We got to get some nosebleeds. We got to learn Like if anyone's into podcasting, they know they didn't just click a button and then became like it requires some nosebleeds and I think there's a fair share of that that we were supposed to go through.

0:06:56 - Harry Duran

It's all part of the course, I think it's important for children is this idea of learning resiliency, but also understanding and explaining to them that this is going to happen so they're not caught off guard. Because probably the first time it happens, when you're used to getting things your way and you realize you know things are not going to be your way, then those little things happen. And I remember when I used to play baseball when I was younger just teeball, just little league stuff and I was the fastest kid on the team and I think I've told this story a couple of times already. But and then later on, like when I got to high school, I ran track and I was like I never forget that feeling of running as fast as I could and still having like a couple of kids, just like way faster.

0:07:36 - Ben Albert

I was like, wait I thought I was the fastest.

0:07:40 - Harry Duran

It's all these little harsh realities that's set in for people and it happens to athletes, right, like there's like the best athlete in high school. They get to college and like you know what you're riding the bench for, like all four seasons and or the they're the best in college and it gets the pros and they're just like OK, riding the bench again. You know, it's just like. So if you think about man, well, what you have to be to excel at the pinnacle of the best of the top, like a Michael Jordan, like how good he is, you know, and all the folks, all the jerseys that used to wear, and like how good they must be. So you learn to appreciate it. But also you learn to also realize that life is hard and it's not fair and it's not always fair. So it's a good early lesson to learn.

0:08:19 - Ben Albert

You gave me a realization. I don't even know if it's true, but it's coming up and I'm curious of your thoughts on it. Podcasting is a small pool. It's like I know I can't be the best basketball player. I'm a good marketer. But I'm not going to be like an Alex Hermosi, gary Vee, like Grand Cardone, like superstar marketer. I've never been the best at anything, but at least with podcasting I've got less competition. Yeah, totally, I got less competition. At least who's the Michael Jordan of podcasting?

0:08:54 - Harry Duran

I bet you, whoever it is, thinks they are as well too. It's also it's so many different angles and there's a lot of great, I would say. Probably, you know, someone would say Joe Rogan right, because of the reach and the impact that his show has. I mean, I think he's like the new opera in terms of like, if he can move, you know, cultural themes and he can make cultural shifts by virtue of people, having people on his show, you know. Just think of the visibility that he's given folks like Graham Hancock and talk about stuff that I love, talking about ancient civilization. So I'm just like, yeah, more of that, please. And but he just he feed.

What is beautiful about Joe is that he's just doing what he loves and he just comes across and he just happened to be like doing it consistently and doing all these other things like comedy and and MMA broadcasting and you know, taekwondo and jiu-jitsu and archery and hunting. So he's just like kind of this like Renaissance man, jack of all trades, and he just, but he's got this little kid energy about him too, which is infectious. That's why he created this like, almost like, not that he invented the format, but he just kind of refined it to his own thing, of saying, hey, like this is what I just like, talking to cool people and learning along the way. And you can see that he's gotten better. If you listen as a podcast host to the quality of his questions, you can tell that he's a student of the craft and he's consistently just trying to be better. Now he just opened up this amazing comedy club, the comedy mothership in Austin another just like fun, cool project to do to so he could hang out with his boys and his fellow comedians and it's just just fun. It is a really big door opener and I think kind of alluding and coming back to your point about you know, doing well in this space is I'm just grateful for the doors it's opened.

It's I own a podcast production business. That's my business since 2015. So I'm fully remote and it's because of I had this show for a year and I learned everything I could about it and then, you know, hired a couple of business coaches to teach me the business pieces of it and then I was able to leave my corporate job. You know I was in corporate for like 20 years and so I've now got a second show at the work with army podcast. I've traveled to like Dubai last year because the sponsor of the show flew me out there. So just all these doors that open up if you're just continue to put the work in to try to improve.

And I get the sense from like just even looking at you know what you've been doing with your shows, shows and what you're doing on the website, that you've got this marketers mindset, and I'm wondering if we just want to rewind the clock back a little bit so we can kind of figure this out chronologically. You do mention that you had a passion for music and that led to the first show. So talk a little bit about that. You know how you moved. You channel your hoop dreams into music dreams.

0:11:34 - Ben Albert

Yeah, the one sentence click bait is I did get furlough during COVID and replace my sales executive income in just about a year and, similar to you like, for me I didn't start a production agency, but I started a marketing firm and the networking I got to do again Rochester business connections. I went hyper local, did local networking and was able to funnel in marketing business using the podcast. But it really all started with there was no monetary initiative when I started in 2016. I was a party animal. I was at music three to five times a week and eventually I asked myself this question like Are you a contributor, are you just a consumer?

And when you have a drinking problem, you come up with great questions. You don't always come up with great answers, but I was listening to podcasts like crazy, literally like I was a traveling sales rep for to Bonnie yogurt for a little while. So I was going to all the stores and I was listening to podcasts on the car ride. That's what got me into it. And then I was going to music every single night and I was setting up it back in the day. I was setting up my space pages Nowadays. I was setting up Facebook. I was setting up events Facebook pages. I was promoting the music. I was like this is what I started to do.

But it all started with me just being a consumer, which in the entertainment industry. There's no such thing as entertainment industry without consumers. But when you're dedicating your entire social life to it, you start to feel like you're just draining your life force and you're not any adding any value. And I took the cliche but pretty decent advice to follow your passion. I liked Rochester, I liked music, I liked podcasts. So I started the only Rochester music podcast in the world I guess the only Rochester music podcast.

0:13:36 - Harry Duran

They might be at the Rochester cities, but there's no Rochester music podcast.

0:13:41 - Ben Albert

And I didn't have a goal. But there was an added benefit that I got into places for free. But the key to that is when I started that 2020 business podcast, rebranded myself, started to get my life together, tried to make big changes during a really difficult time during COVID. The only reason I had a fraction of success in that first year was that I was podcasting for fun for five years. I had started doing live streams at the start of COVID because musicians couldn't play live, so I had a lot of momentum doing live streams.

I had worked for a corporate marketing firm, I had marketed my podcast and I just took all these skills and the curiosity from when I was younger and just like always wanting to learn something different, because I never felt like I belonged. I took all these life stories that didn't look like incredible lessons with a bow, but I just took these skills and happened to gain momentum in podcasting and even still to this day, I don't think I would have gained any momentum if I had too much breadth. I did Rochester business. There was no, these are people that literally lived two miles from me but there was a networking events, so we would have coffee chats over a podcast. We had the commonality that we did live and work in the same area and it ended up being a lead generation source. I don't know if I necessarily wanted it to be, I just did it because I needed to learn, and it led to clients, so the music podcast came first right 2016, Music 2020 November was the business.

0:15:25 - Harry Duran

What was a highlight from all the interviews you did with the music show?

0:15:29 - Ben Albert

The highlight? That's a really good question, specifically so, the highlight was never the podcast. The quality was not the best, but I would get into music festivals for free and I would bring my portable equipment and I would record entire live sets from these festivals and then I'd restream it on that podcast stream. I haven't put out an episode in like over a year. Almost two years haven't put out an episode and I still get literally hundreds of listens a month from like.

Billy Strings just won a Grammy for Best Bluegrass Artist and I have a recording of him in 2017 at a small local bar and just that that's on the RSS feed. That just gets like 50 listens a week on its own, so like a big highlight of it was just being in, being in the action, being a contributing source. There's a lot of highlights like that.

0:16:35 - Harry Duran

I think that's a very important takeaway of it, because I've experienced it firsthand with this show, padke Shankis and if I think about it, I always like to say that I had a master plan for the show and I knew exactly what I was doing. I was just inspired by, you know, inside the actor studio, and you know I was like, oh, I can look at that in depth story about this actor. You just see him on screen but here's, they're going for an hour and they're talking, and they're just talking about regular stuff. And I was like so that was the idea and that's how I started this show.

But I also wanted to meet people in podcasting and I wanted them to know who I was. I don't want to talk to someone for an hour and just be like, oh no, with just audio, because back then I think it was Skype People using Skype and you were just calling and you would just hear the person and you would just talk for an hour. So thankfully, we were able to connect Skype with call recorder and then I was able to see the video and then record the audio. But it was just important and because I think this is something you can probably relate to, I would go to podcast conferences and they'd be like hey, harry, thanks for the great chat. They would see my face.

You talk for an hour for someone. You've recognized their face. You know maybe not the name or something. You're like, hey, good to see you again. You know that's 300 plus interviews and it's opened up so many doors and now if someone just has a podcast like, they can come on the show, so it's a nice door opener.

And then with Vertical Farming Podcast, just I've been just amazed to see how in three years, I've gotten visibility to be I don't know if you call it a thought leader or just someone who's like visible in the space, to the point where I'm being flown to like indoor farming conferences now and they're putting me up and flying me there, and so just, you know, kind of circling back, and I think it's what you saw with the music show, you know how much it opens doors, this perceived authority that you have, that and press credentials or whatever you want to call them, and so I'm glad. I just want to keep reminding the listener that this is, you know, just follow your passion, but just go really in on it and, you know, be the best at that one little passion and I think you'd be surprised at just how much it can do to open doors in that field.

0:18:35 - Ben Albert

I want to add an asterisk. You said be the best at your passion. I mean, it's great to aspire to be the best. I was bad. My podcast wasn't very good, literally just because I had the press kit on me like I was interviewing Beyonce's drummer for example it's like all because it's hanging on me.

I got the press kit and here's the thing you know, I got started and you didn't. It was the only difference. Like I was the one doing it when everyone else wasn't. I wasn't cut from a different cloth and now I'd like to believe my show currently is pretty good. We've had some kickass guests, but it's not like I was the best when I started. I was just kind of having fun.

0:19:21 - Harry Duran

When did you think about, or did the idea come up for you, to move to the Rochester business?

0:19:29 - Ben Albert

Almost immediately when I decided to go off on my own. There was a whole foggy period of honestly being in a depressed state. When COVID hit, I got let go. I was applying for jobs. Nothing was landing.

I got on LinkedIn and kind of wrote like a sob story cover letter about am I going to leave this pandemic better than I started? Am I going to stare at the wall? Am I going to go find new opportunities, new mentors? And I wrote this as a cover letter that I was like trying to get into jobs with no one was hiring. I don't blame anybody, but it's weird. Is that intuition in that cover letter Like, am I going to just stare at the wall and feel depressed or am I going to find the right mentors, the right relationships? That's exactly what I ended up deciding to do. So again on LinkedIn. This was I'm going to make it sound like I had this all figured out. It was half baked the first like 30 days, but on LinkedIn it's called a connection request. I didn't have any connections. I am my previous firm. We did video production all across the states.

No one was local and my book of business was stripped from me anyways, so I didn't have Rochester business connections. So I started Rochester business connections because I wanted some Big sense.

0:20:54 - Harry Duran

It's really acceptable.

0:20:57 - Ben Albert

And I knew that it was a competitive landscape. I knew that the bigger the guess, the lower probability they'd spend the time with me at that time and I wanted to start a business. So I said let's reach out to Rochester business owners. Two main reasons One they know a ton of stuff I don't know. They're running a successful business.

0:21:20 - Harry Duran

I don't know how to run a successful business.

0:21:22 - Ben Albert

I just started four days ago and two I actually am a pretty darn good marketer so I can possibly help them.

But even if I can you know how networking works, they might know somebody that I can help. So it's hey, I'm starting a Rochester, new York business podcast. Congrats, I'm making a big time. By the way, can I feature you on the show? What do you think the success rate was? That you either don't want to talk or the answer was yes, and that's where it all began, man, and I think it's. I owe my entire career to a rinky dink podcast that had me, my mom, my grandma, my guests and two of their colleagues listening to it. I feel like I monetized. Before I even got to a thousand listens. It was because I was talking to my people.

0:22:12 - Harry Duran

I think what's so important and again, it's just a follow up to the music podcast and it's this idea of creating the vehicle or building the stage for the people that you want to share stage with. And I've repeated this ad nauseam. But if you tell someone, hey, can I pick your brain or can we grab some coffee, and everyone that is going to be like, no, you basically want some free consulting, is what you want.

0:22:37 - Ben Albert

I'm projecting, but when someone says pick my brain. I immediately imagine like someone literally picking a piece of and I don't think I can get those brain cells back. Like do not touch my brain, I'm sorry, I just. I get triggered by that.

0:22:53 - Harry Duran

No, I mean it should trigger, because that's the reaction that the people who hear that almost across the board are going to have. And I think, especially with the world of podcasting, it's this perceived authority, I guess, is what you know the best way to describe it. And I think, when you can have a intelligent conversation and just follow your own curiosity and you want to learn, so you're going to ask questions that shine them in the best light, that highlight their expertise. It's easy to do a little bit of research on a company and just figure out what they're about, but if you're just a good listener, you can and you know how to pull threads. I think that's one of the most important skills for a podcast host. And a lot of times again, when I, with my second show, like I had zero knowledge about real farming but I'm interviewing CEOs and so but I knew that I cut my teeth with 300 plus interviews on this show, and so I think that's probably what you started to see yourself as you started having these conversations right with these business owners.

0:23:48 - Ben Albert

Here you literally answered the question I had in my head, and this was my assumption. I want you to kind of expand on it, because you were a beginner. You asked the questions that someone who is advanced wouldn't ask, which are actually the questions that the listeners want to hear, and your curiosity and lack of knowledge was actually an asset when, if you came in with too much preconceived notions, you would actually over speak where your listeners were.

0:24:20 - Harry Duran

Yes, this is something that, because it's a podcast about podcasting, so we geek out about podcasting.

We can go inside baseball and all of this sort of stuff, and I'll say it every single episode If I have to. There's three people in a podcast conversation the host, the guest and the listener singular. It's one person listening at a time and I never want to lose sight of you, listener, listening right now that Ben and I have in this conversation, but I want to make sure you're always feeling like you're included in this conversation, because without you, listener, I wouldn't have a show, and so that's just something I continuously talk about. And when guests mention or talk about something that's complex or, to your point, something that I don't know, I'm not going to try to fake it that I know this and just keep following along the conversation, because I'll just get lost and it'll just ramble off into something that probably doesn't make any sense and I'll probably ask senseless questions. And, to your exact point, keeping it simple always includes the listener, and I always say that my listeners learning along with me at the same time, you know. So that's. I always keep that in mind.

0:25:21 - Ben Albert

It's beautiful. It's this is me just thinking out loud, but it's a beautiful legacy piece just to document the journey. And then people grow with. You will use Jordan as an example, like Jordan Harbinger pickup podcast, which won't come out of his mouth anymore. He won't even say the words art of charm. But you Google Jordan Harbinger. He had the pickup podcast and the art of charm. Now he's went in to talk about spies and cults and crime and anything you can imagine. His listenership got to grow with him. There's like an evolution that happens with us and you, the listener at the same time. It's like we're evolving together and I think that's really badass and it's a great legacy piece, no matter how many listeners you have. Sharing that journey with someone's really humbling and really fun.

0:26:13 - Harry Duran

I've been really conscious of that point and I've been making a concerted effort to grow my Twitter visibility and I just end up following this guy named Dan Coe and something that he said really resonated with me and I've been thinking about this a lot is.

Our purpose in life is to expand the consciousness of the planet, and the way we do that is by sharing our own journey, without any preconceived notions about who should see it or what aspects of it we should or should not share, because if we feel confident enough that some part of it is going to add value to someone, it's almost a responsibility to share it without thinking or applying any weight to the content of the information.

Because we're all on this trajectory, we're all in this ladder and I'm learning from someone who's like a rung or two ahead of me and I'm teaching what I know to someone who's just a rung or two below me, and I think that just continues to happen.

But if I don't share the ups and downs, the bumps and the bruises, the awkward stuff, you know how we give this perceived notion that we have got it all together because we have a public face, but there's a lot of stuff that's like the duck feet under the water, just paddling in you know a mile a minute just to kind of keep everything afloat and I think but I think having the confidence that you can share that without feeling like you're being perceived as someone who's failed, and especially as an entrepreneur and I'm sure you've come across this as well like this idea of failing like in the beginning it hurts and you just want to sit on the floor and mope, but later you just realize no, I just got to get up faster, like I got to dust that dirt off my shoulders and I just got to, like, get on to the next thing and I'm like that didn't work, that didn't work, that didn't work, spent thousands of dollars on that.

Whoops, that was a mistake. But you got to keep going. And I think I love the saying that the universe rewards momentum and I'm curious you know how that's. You can relate to that in your own journey.

0:28:01 - Ben Albert

Yeah, I mean success rewards speed, but it's not a sprint and it's funny. It's reflecting on what you just said. Like I just love podcasting. It's like what's a failure. So I'll admit it hasn't came out. It'll come out soon, but I interviewed Chris Van Blee for the second time. He has insight with Chris Van Blee. He's a four time Emmy award winning interviewer and so he's a mentor of mine. Like he's way better at interviewing than I am. He's won four Emmys. Approve it. I felt like the second time I interviewed him I didn't do a very good job. I listened back. I guarantee people will like it. I knew I didn't do a very good job. What a good problem to have.

I interviewed a four time Emmy award winner and didn't do a good job. Like if that's the worst of my problems right now I'm in the right industry. Like when you're doing something that really lights you up and you're willing to take that marathon one step at a time. Like the failures seem like just like ripples in the ocean that will go ignored, like most of what I do in entrepreneurship.

0:29:11 - Harry Duran

Yeah, yeah. How do you determine, or what's the criteria for deciding, whether an interview was good or bad for you?

0:29:29 - Ben Albert

If I don't feel right in my body, I kind of get stuck in my head and I don't think I deliver because I'm not being present. And then I ending up trying to queue up questions or end up like I'm just not being present in the moment. And I know that if you're authentically listening to me episode to episode, you can probably tell this could just be my own limiting belief. But and I'm not a perfectionist but I want to show up when someone who has accomplished huge things decides to put their chips on me. Spend time with me. It's my job to do my best and if I feel like I'm not doing my best, I'm going to be hard on myself. I think that's only human.

0:30:23 - Harry Duran

Where does that drive in? You come from?

0:30:27 - Ben Albert

A need to be liked probably.

0:30:29 - Harry Duran

And how far back do you recall having that need?

0:30:33 - Ben Albert

I had a jersey for every day of the week because I wanted to be a basketball player. I thought Michael Jordan was cool. Then, when I realized that wasn't going to be in my future, it was actually heartbreaking and, honestly, I would hide. I was a kid that was bullied. When I was younger I would hide from attention. But the reason I would hide from attention is I feel like I didn't like the feeling of not being accepted, and they can't not accept you if you isolate yourself. I've been doing the deep work. Honestly, harry, I don't have it all figured out, but when you go down the rabbit hole, you start to realize. The things that happened to us when we were younger totally, completely shape our lives, but they're also great tools. I don't think I would have any success in podcasting if I wasn't insatiably curious. I don't think I'd be curious if I had a silver spoon. So I really think they're all beneficial things.

0:31:27 - Harry Duran

I think it's understated or whatever the right word is there, but it's not appreciated as much like what you just said, how much of what happens to us in our childhood, how that affects all of us. And I've had stuff that's happened with early sibling that passed away in the family, that caused an energy that affected me and I was only two years old when it happened. So I held on to that somehow and now I avoid confrontation and I obviously think, thanks to therapy, which I talk openly about you know this idea of being slightly diagnosed as ADHD like I'm sharing all this stuff now I'm 52. So I feel like I'm just making up for lost time and just letting people know like the crazy journey that I've been on and the stuff that still I have to still continue to work on.

I just came back from a men's gathering of you know it was about 30 to 50 men and it was with a group called Sacred Sons and it cracked open my heart in a way that hasn't been cracked open when you get together with a group of men who are willing to be vulnerable and share a lot of the, the shitty stuff they've gone through, the horrible stuff they've gone through. Everyone went through everything. You name it, like abuse on both sides, and to see men like open up like that and being able to, you know, cry in a protective environment, work through like your rage. You know we're doing like ritual combat by boxing with another man, but in a playful environment. These are all things that, like men, don't have the opportunity to do. And I was probably like some of one of the older guys there and there was guys as young as 22 there I was like fuck, I wish I had the the wherewithal to go to something like that when I was 22. But I think these, these, more of these things are happening.

So I think, all that to say, there's always room for that inner work, that deep work, and you have to have the knowledge that you know you you can benefit from it and you can benefit it from it yourself.

And also, when people see you doing the deep work, that's sharing it with people as well. And I don't know to what extent you know you're open about some of the stuff on your show, but I've been just more conscious of like sharing things like your retreat and, you know, recently posted today. I just posted my experience at the event on Instagram with my photo. I haven't had a photo on my Instagram feed for like probably two years because I just didn't feel like I had anything memorable to like talk about and I just felt self-conscious about where I was and all the things that I was working on. So, yeah, all that to say just, you know, I applaud you for doing your own deep work and continuing to talk about it, because I think these are the little things that whoever's listening may need to hear, like this exact conversation at this exact moment for where they are in their life.

0:34:08 - Ben Albert

We don't get to choose whether they need to hear it. It's just our job to show up for them. Just in case there's been conversations I didn't understand and then I come back to them years later I'm like, oh my God, I kind of wish I got the message the first time. But we don't really get to choose, right? Yeah, it's just, it's our job to show up and hopefully we can help some people while we do it.

0:34:30 - Harry Duran

Yeah, definitely so. You were doing the Rochester business connections and then talk to me about the, the aha for pivoting to real business connections now.

0:34:41 - Ben Albert

Yeah, yeah, I don't even know it was the aha. I think it was maybe slightly just a drunk on power concept. At the end of the day, very simply put, born and raised in Rochester, new York, love my city, will advocate for my city any day of the week. But I Don't just learn from people from Rochester. I mean, there was a day in my life when I was in corporate and I was honestly miserable. If you asked me if I was miserable, I wouldn't tell you this. But every Monday morning I would take an unprescribed Xanax because I was struggling to get through the week and it was just that was my Monday.

On the ride to work, while I'm taking that Xanax, I'd listen to podcasts like the Jordan Harbinger show back then. It was the art of charm. I'd listen to young and profiting with Hala Taha, listen to Chris Van Vleet. I'd listen to these podcasts and I'd learn the information, but I wasn't implementing anything because I had no time to, because I was too time running, too much time feeling bad about myself to Actually implement the stuff. Now the reason I give you that piece of like my backstory is I've had Jordan and Hala and Chris on my show and I have to pinch myself because Each and every one of them have accomplished way more than I have, and it humbles me that they will put their chips on me and Spend time with me and come on my show. But these are people that one day it was just a pipe dream that I'd even meet them. They were never like it was an idol worship, but they were celebrities in a sense.

Definitely there are people I listen to all the time and Once I gained a little bit of momentum, I realized that I can build something local, but I want to build something bigger. It was literally like I think I might be able to meet my mentors if I just rebrand a little bit. Yeah, yeah, of course. So the honest version is I rebranded because I'm all about mentorship and I wanted to get in the room With new people that I could never get in with with.

0:36:48 - Harry Duran

Just a local show Totally makes sense I think I was thinking that way when I in those early days when I started because as I was doing my show I was leaving, my writing was on the wall, that I was about to get probably laid off in my corporate job and I Hired a coat. I was paying him 1500 bucks a month and he's a friend now, talking more black belt. He does one-to-one, he helps coaches move one-to-one to one-to-many. But I remember just going into that first event because he did a couple of in-person events and Totally feeling way out of my element. You know these guys, these are like six figures, seven figure business owners. I was swimming in a crazy deep end and I was just like I felt total imposter syndrome. It's working their businesses and I'm like what's your business? I'm like I got a podcast that makes no money and I'm paying you. So it's like Working out.

But the Jim Rome quote stands out you're the average of the five people you spend the most time with and this idea of opportunity costs. These business owners knew what their time is worth. You know they knew it made more sense to pay for what's in Takis brain because he's gonna get them there faster, and so I was like, oh, what if I package all this thing I'm learning with the podcast to a done for you service? And then my first client actually came from the mastermind and then I've actually like Stare-stip that approach. I've joined like probably three or four masterminds where I've paid a Significant amount of money to join just to be in the room in the same way that you've created this, this podcast, to be in the room with these people. And you know I'm grateful that I've had, you know, hung out with, with Jordan and you know and Pat, and we went to a podcast Conference in Australia with a guy named Ron Z Vaz who I met in Takis group and he did a conference in Australia. So he, I end up getting on the on the panel, pat Flynn is on the panel, jordan Harbinger on the panel, dave Jackson, travis Chapel, and we're all in Australia and then after the conference he runs a house for two days and so we're all hanging out in the house together for two days and I remember going to the fridge at one point I was like I kind of had like that same moment.

I was like whoa, I'm like hanging out with like these people that are not like super celebrities but in our world of podcasting. You know, you respect and admire them. So I can totally relate to that feeling and and how it became about, because Dave Jackson says it's a lot hashtag because of my podcast, like. So I think I just want to. I feel like I can't tell people enough. You know how many doors have opened because of this, of my show and shows, and I'm sure it's been the same for you and it's just really just. I love the fact that we're having this conversation because there's someone who's probably on the fence listening right now. I was like you know what? I think? I think it's finally time, and I think that's important, that we keep pushing them in that direction.

0:39:27 - Ben Albert

Yeah, I joke about this and I first of I couldn't agree more. I joke about this analogy all the time, but for anyone old enough that had a myspace, I'm curious Did you have a myspace or was that? So who was your first friend?

0:39:40 - Harry Duran

Oh yeah, what's his name? I forgot Dave.

0:39:43 - Ben Albert

It's. It's my space, so you'd set up a myspace and owes this random dude in a white t-shirt with some sloppy chalkboard in the background. Yeah, that was so smart. Why was Tom our first friend?

0:39:56 - Harry Duran

because he was the founder of myspace.

0:39:59 - Ben Albert

Exactly so. If you want friends, if you want to see that a table, if you want to see that the panel, if you want an opportunity to be on the mic, why don't?

0:40:08 - Harry Duran

just bring your own life.

0:40:11 - Ben Albert

That's all he did, that's all anyone, that's all any of us did. I Come from a corporate world and I'm a bad golfer and I say this and I pissed people off. But like I did not want to do the old-fashioned row and I was able to get in the door with people, people are like trying to go to golf networking meetings. I'm just like, hey, have a podcast, I don't have any listeners. I didn't say the second part, have a podcast, they don't have any listeners. Will you come on? And then I had a deep discussion With a mentor and I didn't have to be good at golf, that's exactly.

0:40:46 - Harry Duran

I hate golf as well. Who wants to sit in the Sun for like three or four hours just baking and just like drinking way too much and Ending up with a horrible headache afterwards? So yeah, you took the fast route and the more fun route.

0:41:00 - Ben Albert

I've got nothing against golf. This is an anti golf. I just think it's such a meme that that's what you're supposed to do.

0:41:06 - Harry Duran

It is an old-school way yeah it's old school.

0:41:09 - Ben Albert

If you're creative, you can find different ways to get in the door without the traditional approach.

0:41:15 - Harry Duran

Do you feel like your marketing has improved as a result of the all the work you do on the podcasts?

0:41:20 - Ben Albert

Oh yeah, it's so hard. You get it all the time. I imagine. How do I monetize the nuance part? Let's just ignore monetization entirely. The nuance part is the self-development, the training that I can bring on a world-class marketer and ask them a personal question. Everything I do on the podcast makes me better at my public speaking, it makes me better at my self-confidence, it makes me better at my marketing and I funnel what I learn into the strategies that I utilize for my clients. So currently I'm losing money overall. I think, Even if it's an expense, it's training, it's a marketing funnel, it's it I get kind of. It's not as bad as pick your brain. But when people are trying to monetize without understanding the added benefits, I think they kind of have rose. You did it differently, which blows my mind, but a lot of people have rose-colored glasses on and they either wanna be famous or rich and that's not necessarily the top benefits of podcasting. I'm on a soapbox. I apologize, man.

0:42:30 - Harry Duran

And this is I think I should call this podcast soapbox. I mean, I want us. I'm on one, you're on one, and this is what we. This is what I love about it. We can just literally keep geeking out on why we love podcasting, because people know what they signed up for when they listened to these episodes. What's the future hold for you, Like, how are you thinking about the opportunities available to you, given what you've been able to achieve so far and given what you think is?

0:42:56 - Ben Albert

possible. It's a good question. I'm a podcast junkie. I guess it's a good show, so I'm gonna continue more as more I'll just give you and I'll do this for you. At the end I'll give you and all the listeners a strategy that I've been utilizing, that I haven't actually like pushed out yet.

When's the best time to get a testimony or a review? Is it six months down the road, when someone's on vacation and you just happen to send them some crazy email like they forgot they even talked to you? When's the best time to ask for a referral? It's in a high point. I used to give this analogy all the time. It's kind of silly, but it's true. When's the best time to go in for a kiss? Is it at the end of the day, when she's drunk and trying to get out of the car, or is that an emotional high? The best time to ask for anything is an emotional high.

So one thing I've implemented into my podcast, just my checklist of things I do. At the end of every episode I asked the guest for a testimonial and by getting these testimonials, their video I have the audio and the transcription I'm gonna be able to take my circle of friends that I've met through podcasting and, let's be honest, leverage some of their authority for added authority when I'm marketing myself, for marketing public speaking, this and that, and in addition to that, by running these testimonials, I can actually grow the show. So there's a lot going on behind the scenes but, in short, I've been asking everyone I interview for a testimonial and then I hope to leverage a lot of that goodwill to reach more people, impact more people and just build a bigger firm.

0:44:42 - Harry Duran

So, Ben, would you be open to giving me a testimonial following this conversation? 100% 100%.

0:44:48 - Ben Albert

I do have another meeting, but we'll squeeze it in no 1,000%, because why ask for something that you won't do?

0:44:57 - Harry Duran

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think it's genius, I think it's amazing, and I know we're getting close to the top of the hour, so you do it before we click stop.

0:45:04 - Ben Albert

It's literally how it works.

0:45:06 - Harry Duran

A couple of questions. I usually end every show with what's something you've changed your mind about recently.

0:45:11 - Ben Albert

Changed my mind about. So this is a big one. This is a complicated one. There was a time in my life where I didn't know what to say and I learned a bunch of strategies and I thought that life was about strategy tactics. There's an element to how to tell a story, there's a way to persuade, but then I found myself just triggering checklists in my head and what I've been learning is I feel more fulfilled when I'm just authentically present. There's no checklist, maybe the story doesn't come out right. I learned the Tony Robbins way not to put them on the spot, but you go through a system what I call the Russo brand way is you don't know what's gonna come out of someone's mouth.

And I'm learning that although strategy and tactics and systems work, I feel way more lit when I'm just present and saying whatever seems feels right. So a big internal thing going on, yeah.

0:46:15 - Harry Duran

I love that. What's the most misunderstood thing about you?

0:46:19 - Ben Albert

I think one thing that's really misunderstood is I am not outgoing, I'm not a social butterfly. If anything I have, like it's a limiting belief, but I have anxiety issues. If you were to, I haven't been to any of the podcast conference yet because I don't wanna go talk to a bunch of people.

So it's like people think I'm a chatterbox because I have a podcast. I will talk to someone eight hours straight if it's just, if it's intimate. But I think people think that I'm a social butterfly. I'm a quiet guy. As soon as we jump off this, I'm probably gonna go right in to get that.

0:46:53 - Harry Duran

Well then we'll put a bow on this and then we'll get that testimonial, but I wanna thank you so much for taking the time to reach out like a true marketer, looking for opportunities. That would be a good fit to talk about what's happening in your world. And then you were spot on with reaching out and because we run in some similar circles and Alex is a fantastic guy, fantastic networker as well so I really had no doubts that this is gonna be a fun and engaging conversation. And I was correct, because I really enjoyed hearing your story and all the aspects of what got you to this point and I think everything that's happened in your life experiences the tough parts, the challenging parts and the resourceful parts about getting back up following the missteps that the setbacks I think it's very inspiring. So I truly appreciate you for being open to sharing your story with my listeners today.

0:47:43 - Ben Albert

Thanks, man, and if people wanna go to my show, you're about to be on it as well. So yeah, that's gonna be fun. You're gonna tell your story there.

0:47:50 - Harry Duran

That's gonna be fun. Where's the best place for folks to connect with you?

0:47:53 - Ben Albert

Yeah, so first, honestly, the barrier to entry is if you hadn't hit subscribe and five stars on this show, you're kinda missing the boat. You can find me where you found this. Just type in the words real business connections and that's where you'll find me. Sounds good. Thanks again for your time. Thanks, man.